44e législature, 1re session

44th Parliament, 1st session

44e Législature, 1re session

Votes and Proceedings



Procès-verbaux



No. 8




Nº 8




Monday
May 5, 2025



Lundi
5 mai 2025



Hon. Donna Skelly
Speaker

L'hon. Donna Skelly
la présidente

MONDAY, MAY 5, 2025
EIGHTH DAY

LUNDI  5 MAI 2025
HUITIÈME JOUR

10:15 A.M.

Prayers

10 H 15

Prières

O Canada

Ô Canada

Royal Anthem

Hymne royal

The Speaker delivered the following ruling:

La Présidente a rendu la décision suivante :

On Tuesday, April 29, 2025, the Minister of Infrastructure (Hon. Kinga Surma) rose on a question of privilege relating to an exchange that had occurred during Question Period that morning. Although questions of privilege are more commonly raised in the House following the provision of written notice to the Speaker, because the matter had arisen directly from the proceedings the Minister was permitted to raise her question without written notice, in accordance with Standing Order 23(c).

The Leader of the Third Party and the Government House Leader also spoke to the question of privilege, and I subsequently received written submissions from the Minister of Infrastructure, the Leader of the Third Party, the Government House Leader and the Official Opposition House Leader.

I have reviewed the Hansard from the proceedings of April 29 along with the written materials and the relevant parliamentary authorities, and I am now prepared to rule on this matter. Given that this is the first question of privilege to be raised in the 44th Parliament, I will begin by explaining the concepts of privilege and contempt. Erskine May, the pre-eminent authority on Westminster parliamentary procedure, defines parliamentary privilege in the following terms at page 239 of its 25th edition:

“Parliamentary privilege is the sum of certain rights enjoyed by each House collectively as a constituent part of the High Court of Parliament; and by Members of each House individually, without which they could not discharge their functions, and which exceed those possessed by other bodies or individuals. Some privileges rest solely on the law and custom of Parliament, while others have been defined by statute.”

Privileges fall into two categories. One category is made up of the privileges enjoyed by individual Members, which include freedom of speech, exemption from jury duty and exemption from being subpoenaed to attend court as a witness. The other category comprises the collective privileges of the House, including the right to regulate internal affairs, the right to institute inquiries and the power to discipline.

It is important to distinguish breaches of privilege from the separate but related concept of contempt. The third edition of House of Commons Procedure and Practice explains the distinction in the following terms on pages 80 and 81:

“Any disregard of or attack on the rights, powers and immunities of the House and its Members, either by an outside person or body, or by a Member of the House, is referred to as a ‘breach of privilege’ and is punishable by the House. There are, however, other affronts against the dignity and authority of Parliament which may not fall within one of the specifically defined privileges. Thus, the House also claims the right to punish, as a contempt, any action which, though not a breach of a specific privilege: tends to obstruct or impede the House in the performance of its functions; obstructs or impedes any Member or officer of the House in the discharge of their duties; or is an offence against the authority or dignity of the House, such as disobedience of its legitimate commands or libels upon itself, its Members or its officers.... In that sense, all breaches of privilege are contempts of the House, but not all contempts are necessarily breaches of privilege.”

There is agreement among the procedural authorities that a finding that a Member deliberately misled (or attempted to mislead) the House can amount to a contempt. However, there is also agreement that the threshold for such a finding is quite high. The fifth edition of Parliamentary Practice in New Zealand provides the following explanation on page 719:

“There are three elements to be established when an allegation is made against a member regarding the member’s statement: the statement must, in fact, have been misleading; the member must have known that the statement was inaccurate at the time the statement was made; and the member must have intended to mislead the House...

For a misleading of the House to be deliberate, there must be an indication of an intention to mislead. Remarks made off the cuff in debate can rarely fall into this category, nor can matters of which the member can be aware only in an official capacity.”

This standard has been affirmed on many occasions in our own House by my predecessors in this chair. As Speaker Carr ruled on June 17, 2002, at pages 101-102 of the Journals, in order for the Speaker to find a prima facie case of contempt on the basis of deliberately misleading the House, there must be “a proved finding of an overt attempt to intentionally mislead the Legislature. In the absence of an admission from the Member accused of the conduct, or of tangible confirmation of the conduct, independently proved, a Speaker must assume that no honourable Members would engage in such behaviour or that, at most, inconsistent statements were the result of inadvertence or honest mistake.”

In reviewing the exchange between the Minister of Infrastructure and the Member for Ottawa South, I am unable to find tangible confirmation that the Member misled, or intended to mislead, the House. The Member asked a series of oral questions, all answered by the Minister, relating to the process by which the government awarded a contract for the redevelopment of Ontario Place. The Minister has contended that the Member’s characterization of the government’s process is at odds with the reported findings of the Auditor General and the Integrity Commissioner. The Member for Ottawa South, on the other hand, has submitted that his characterization of the process is, in fact, supported by the Auditor General’s report. As has been the case in this House many times before, this appears to me to amount to, at most, a disagreement between two honourable Members.

The Members are entitled to hold differing views of the matter and to express those views in this Chamber. The Question Period proceeding enables private Members to hold the government to account by asking questions of the Executive Council about government policy and decision-making, thereby fulfilling one of the primary functions of this Legislative Assembly. Members’ remarks in Question Period, as in all parliamentary proceedings, are protected by the privilege of freedom of speech, which permits Members to express their opinions and speak freely. This is essential to the effective functioning of the House, and to the ability of all Members to fulfill their parliamentary roles. If a Member and a Minister disagree in their interpretations of government action or decision-making, or even in their interpretation of the report of an Officer of the Assembly, Question Period provides an ideal opportunity to make those views known.

It is not uncommon for honourable Members and Ministers, from all sides of the House, to draw different interpretations of the Officers’ reported findings, and even, on occasion, to disagree with them. 

On a separate but related note, the Minister also suggested that the behaviour of the Member from Ottawa South amounted to misconduct, and the Government House Leader made reference to the Members’ Code of Conduct on Harassment. It is relevant to note that on October 4, 2018, the Code of Conduct was amended to make it clear that “the Code shall not derogate from the parliamentary privileges of the Assembly and its Members.” The Member’s Code of Conduct does not supersede the privileges that Members enjoy, including freedom of speech.

Finally, in her written submission, the Minister of Infrastructure correctly noted that Standing Order 25 contains a number of rules regarding the orderliness of Members’ language and remarks. I would like to clarify for all Members that the application of these rules of debate is distinct from the concepts of privilege and contempt that I have described in my ruling today. As the Speaker, it is my role to ensure that the rules of debate are respected during all proceedings. Should any Member wish to raise a point of order about language used during Question Period, the appropriate time to do so is immediately following Question Period on the same day. 

I thank the House for its attention.


The House recessed at 11:49 a.m.

À 11 h 49, l’Assemblée a suspendu la séance.


1:00 P.M.

13 H

Introduction of Government Bills

Dépôt de projets de loi émanant du gouvernement

The following Bill was introduced and read the first time:

Le projet de loi suivant est présenté et lu une première fois :

Bill 11, An Act to enact or amend various Acts related to health care. Hon. Sylvia Jones (Minister of Health).

Projet de loi 11, Loi visant à édicter ou à modifier diverses lois en ce qui concerne les soins de santé. L'hon. Sylvia Jones (Ministre de la Santé).

Petitions

Pétitions

No./ Petition title/Titre de la pétition Presented by/Présentée par
P-6 911 emergency response coverage France Gélinas
P-16 Personal Support Workers France Gélinas
P-19 Fuel taxes Deepak Anand
P-19 Fuel taxes Anthony Leardi
P-24 Wilmot Township farmland expropriation Catherine Fife
P-29 Mental health services France Gélinas
P-30 Anti-Black racism Kristyn Wong-Tam
P-31 Lest We Forget flag Catherine Fife
P-32 Dementia strategy Doly Begum
P-33 Neurological movement disorder clinic France Gélinas
P-34 Accès aux soins primaires France Gélinas

Orders of the Day

Ordres du jour

Opposition Day

Jour de l’opposition

John Fraser moved,

John Fraser a proposé,

Whereas, Ontario is in an affordability crisis, making it increasingly difficult for families to pay their monthly bills; and

Whereas, Ontario businesses are struggling to stay afloat faced with U.S. tariffs; and

Whereas, the Premier promised to provide Ontarians with an income tax cut over 7 years ago and has failed to deliver;

Therefore, in the opinion of this House, the Government of Ontario should make life more affordable for Ontario workers, families, and small businesses by reducing the tax rate for Ontario's second income tax bracket from 9.15% to 7.15%, eliminating the provincial portion of the HST on home heating and hydro bills, and cutting the small business tax rate in half.

Debate arose and after some time,

Il s’élève un débat et après quelque temps,

The question was then put.

La question a ensuite été mise aux voix.

Lost on the following division:

Rejetée par le vote suivant :

Ayes/pour (14)
Blais
Blais
Bowman
Bowman
Brady
Brady
Cerjanec
Cerjanec
Collard
Collard
Fairclough
Fairclough
Fraser
Fraser
Hazell
Hazell
Hsu
Hsu
McMahon
McMahon
Shamji
Shamji
Smyth
Smyth
Tsao
Tsao
Watt
Watt
 
Nays/contre (78)
Allsopp
Allsopp
Anand
Anand
Babikian
Babikian
Bailey
Bailey
Begum
Begum
Bell
Bell
Bouma
Bouma
Bourgouin
Bourgouin
Calandra
Calandra
Cho (Scarborough North)
Cho (Scarborough-Nord)
Ciriello
Ciriello
Clark
Clark
Cooper
Cooper
Crawford
Crawford
Cuzzetto
Cuzzetto
Darouze
Darouze
Denault
Denault
Dixon
Dixon
Dowie
Dowie
Downey
Downey
Fife
Fife
Firin
Firin
Flack
Flack
French
French
Gélinas
Gélinas
Gilmour
Gilmour
Gretzky
Gretzky
Grewal
Grewal
Hamid
Hamid
Hardeman
Hardeman
Harris
Harris
Holland
Holland
Jones (Chatham-Kent—Leamington)
Jones (Chatham-Kent—Leamington)
Jordan
Jordan
Kanapathi
Kanapathi
Kernaghan
Kernaghan
Kerzner
Kerzner
Khanjin
Khanjin
Leardi
Leardi
Lecce
Lecce
Mamakwa
Mamakwa
McGregor
McGregor
Mulroney
Mulroney
Oosterhoff
Oosterhoff
Pang
Pang
Parsa
Parsa
Pasma
Pasma
Pierre
Pierre
Pirie
Pirie
Quinn
Quinn
Racinsky
Racinsky
Rae
Rae
Riddell
Riddell
Rosenberg
Rosenberg
Sabawy
Sabawy
Sandhu
Sandhu
Sarkaria
Sarkaria
Sarrazin
Sarrazin
Sattler
Sattler
Saunderson
Saunderson
Schreiner
Schreiner
Scott (Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock)
Scott (Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock)
Scott (Sault Ste. Marie)
Scott (Sault Ste. Marie)
Smith (Parry Sound—Muskoka)
Smith (Parry Sound—Muskoka)
Smith (Peterborough—Kawartha)
Smith (Peterborough—Kawartha)
Smith (Scarborough Centre)
Smith (Scarborough-Centre)
Smith (Thornhill)
Smith (Thornhill)
Surma
Surma
Tangri
Tangri
Thanigasalam
Thanigasalam
Thompson
Thompson
Vanthof
Vanthof
Vaugeois
Vaugeois
Vickers
Vickers
Wai
Wai
West
West
Williams
Williams
Wong-Tam
Wong-Tam
 

Second Reading of Bill 5, An Act to enact the Special Economic Zones Act, 2025, to amend the Endangered Species Act, 2007 and to replace it with the Species Conservation Act, 2025, and to amend various Acts and revoke various regulations in relation to development and to procurement.

Deuxième lecture du projet de loi 5, Loi édictant la Loi de 2025 sur les zones économiques spéciales, modifiant la Loi de 2007 sur les espèces en voie de disparition et la remplaçant par la Loi de 2025 sur la conservation des espèces, puis modifiant diverses lois et abrogeant divers règlements en ce qui concerne le développement et l'approvisionnement.

Debate resumed and after some time,

Le débat a repris et après quelque temps,

Steve Clark moved, under Standing Order 51 “That this question be now put”.

Steve Clark a proposé, conformément à l’article 51 du Règlement « Que cette question soit maintenant mise aux voix ».

Vote deferred.

Le vote est différé.

Motion for an Address in Reply to the Speech of Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor at the Opening of the Session.

Motion portant l'Adresse en réponse au discours prononcé par Son Honneur la lieutenante-gouverneure à l'ouverture de la session.

Debate resumed and after some time,

Le débat a repris et après quelque temps,

The Acting Speaker (Deepak Anand) informed the House,

Le président suppléant (Deepak Anand) a informé l’Assemblée,

That pursuant to Standing Order 9(g), the Clerk received written notice from the Government House Leader indicating that a temporary change in the weekly meeting schedule of the House is required, and therefore, the Afternoon Routine on Wednesday, May 7, 2025 shall commence at 1:00 p.m. (Sessional Paper No. 27).

Que, conformément à l’article 9 g) du Règlement, le greffier a reçu un avis écrit du leader parlementaire du gouvernement indiquant qu’une modification temporaire doit être apportée à l’horaire hebdomadaire des séances de l’Assemblée et, par conséquent, les affaires de l’après-midi du mercredi 7 mai 2025 commenceront à 13 h (Document parlementaire no 27).

Debate resumed and after some time, the House adjourned at 6:00 p.m.

Le débat a repris et après quelque temps, à 18 h, l’Assemblée a ajourné ses travaux.


The House adjourned at 6:00 p.m.

À 18 h, l’Assemblée a ajourné ses travaux.


Sessional Papers Presented Pursuant to Standing Order 43

Documents Parlementaires déposés conformément à l'article 43 du règlement

No., Suffix/Nº, Suffixe Title</span/Titre Date tabled/Date de dépôt
25 Cabinet Office, Certificate pursuant to Standing Order 110(f)(1) re Intended Appointments: May 2, 2025 May 5, 2025
26 Compendia: Hon. Sylvia Jones, Bill 11, An Act to enact or amend various Acts related to health care/L'hon. Sylvia Jones, Projet de loi 11, Loi visant à édicter ou à modifier diverses lois en ce qui concerne les soins de santé May 5, 2025